I see you are attempting to be fair, but I don’t know why you leave out that this did not start with 10/7 but that the “war” is in the context of an inhumane occupation in which the Palestinians have been imprisoned and given no civil rights and barely any human rights for generations. This essay softens the brutality of what Israel, thru Netanyahu, plans to do. That is the outrage.
And yes. Why does always matter. And the answer goes beyond what their charter says. That charter also has a why. I believe the answer to the why goes back to a colonial power's arrogant decision to not acknowledge the people who were already there when they decreed the formation of Israel.
WHY will always matter Diane. Why were the Palestinians blockaded (by BOTH Israel and Egypt)? Because Hamas, in their founding charter, made clear their INTENT TO GENOCIDE ISRAEL. Hamas also brutally imprisoned or killed their political rivals and have maintained a deadly grip over the Gaza population.
Have you counted how many rockets and suicide bombers Hamas has sent into Israel?
Make no mistake I believe what Netanyahu is doing is now a genocide because of the blockade on aid that has caused starvation. But that doesn't invalidate the right of the PEOPLE to exist as a country. Israeli leadership is not representative of the current will of the Israeli people.
But if israel makes it clear that their intent is to take over gaza, then it’s okay? There must be a better solution than wiping out an entire people from the land they have lived in for generations. But the only solution seems to be the final solution.
Remember it is definitely not the majority of Israelis who want to take over Gaza! It is just Netanyahu and his right wing supporters. Most Israelis want a two state solution!
No it's not OK. it is what the government is doing not with the support of their people.
The problem is intensely religious which defies rational attempts to remedy the situation. I don't know what solution will work. If I feel that I have a God-given right to something then I am beyond your ability to reason with me.
And yes the people in Gaza have lived there for generations, about 3 in total. Archeological digs have unearthed evidence of Jewish people living their thousands of year ago - and nothing from the Palestinians which didn't even exist as a people before the 20th century.
It seems like you are only using on interpretation of Palestinian rights to their homeland, which is disputed. They certainly were there longer than 3 generations. They didn’t just move there 3 generations ago. That seems outrageous. The children in Gaza now, that would be their grandparents, and their grandparents are the ones who experienced the Nakbha.
You mentioned the Nakba. I understand that refers to the Islamic position that the formation of Israel happened with the mass expulsion of Islamic and Arabic people living there.
I also understand that the Israeli position is that the Arabs and Muslims fled on orders from other Islamic countries before those countries attacked Israel.
From what I've read I believe the Israeli side has more credibility.
It is interesting to me what sides of the story people decide is the “truth.” I think it reflects their values and where they think the danger actually comes from. You seem to believe the Israel accounts and their belief in the Islamic threat and I base my opinion on stories and accounts of the people and their children who were actually impacted, in context of colonialism and what the end game is now. I don’t believe the Israeli stories. Their end game is genocide or ethnic cleansing. The end game for the Palestinians is survival and staying on their lands.
What hamas did, killing over thousand and taking hostages is a horrific crime! Israel's answer is cruelly out of proportion. The number of deaths (62000 of which 14 000 are children) is certainly underestimated!!!
Violence cannot possibly produce peace. The total annihilation of Gaza isn't a reasonable answer neither. The clear objective of netanyahu is to steal Gaza to the Palestinians. His plan doesn't stop at Gaza! The increase in the planning of and the construction of new settlements in the West Bank have the same goal. Plainly put netanyahu wants to get rid of the Palestinians and to this end he would be ready want to "ship" them to South Sudan? Really??? You won't be surprised that he wants trumpee to get the Nobel peace price! What a sad joke!!!
Hamas bears much responsibility for their dead civilians. They are quoted as saying the civilian population is the responsibility of the UN and Israel and not theirs! The GOVERNMENT of Gaza claimed ZERO responsibility for their own citizens. And the evidence supports that.
How many years and how many billions did it take to build their network of "terror tunnels"? How many bomb shelters did they build for their people? Zero.
When the IDF carried out their operations and provided notice of where they were going, Hamas could have moved the civilians out of harms way. Or Hamas could have NOT hidden among the civilians. Or Hamas could have NOT fired rockets from hospitals and apartment buildings.
To be clear I believe the Netanyahu government is currently committing genocide against the Palestinians. But that doesn't grant Hamas a pass for their atrocities and choices.
Isreal isn't fighting for security. They're fighting for land. They want all of Palestine. And as much of Jordan, Syria, Lebanon etc as they can get. This is a land grab and nothing more. You'll never appease them.
Israel has no credibility whatsoever after their committing genocide and ethnic cleansing in Palestine. It’s time to return Palestine to their rightful owners of the land…the Palestinians and expel the Zionist invaders.
What do you mean by "rightful owners"? Yasser Arafat created Palestinians from whole cloth as a thorn in Israel's side.
And since you want Israel to "give back" the land they took will you be advocating for EVERY OTHER COUNTRY TO GIVE BACK THEIR STOLEN LAND?
Countries formed for many reasons and almost all of them have conquered and claimed land for themselves. Only Israel is bullied and berated to "give it back" and you know the term for an unfair expectation applied only to Jews - antisemitism.
Why is there no outcry for Hamas, who started this war, to lay down their weapons and surrender. The long range Israeli goal is defeat Hamas both militarily and politically and end the Palestinian conflict.
I see you are attempting to be fair, but I don’t know why you leave out that this did not start with 10/7 but that the “war” is in the context of an inhumane occupation in which the Palestinians have been imprisoned and given no civil rights and barely any human rights for generations. This essay softens the brutality of what Israel, thru Netanyahu, plans to do. That is the outrage.
And yes. Why does always matter. And the answer goes beyond what their charter says. That charter also has a why. I believe the answer to the why goes back to a colonial power's arrogant decision to not acknowledge the people who were already there when they decreed the formation of Israel.
WHY will always matter Diane. Why were the Palestinians blockaded (by BOTH Israel and Egypt)? Because Hamas, in their founding charter, made clear their INTENT TO GENOCIDE ISRAEL. Hamas also brutally imprisoned or killed their political rivals and have maintained a deadly grip over the Gaza population.
Have you counted how many rockets and suicide bombers Hamas has sent into Israel?
Make no mistake I believe what Netanyahu is doing is now a genocide because of the blockade on aid that has caused starvation. But that doesn't invalidate the right of the PEOPLE to exist as a country. Israeli leadership is not representative of the current will of the Israeli people.
But if israel makes it clear that their intent is to take over gaza, then it’s okay? There must be a better solution than wiping out an entire people from the land they have lived in for generations. But the only solution seems to be the final solution.
Remember it is definitely not the majority of Israelis who want to take over Gaza! It is just Netanyahu and his right wing supporters. Most Israelis want a two state solution!
No it's not OK. it is what the government is doing not with the support of their people.
The problem is intensely religious which defies rational attempts to remedy the situation. I don't know what solution will work. If I feel that I have a God-given right to something then I am beyond your ability to reason with me.
And yes the people in Gaza have lived there for generations, about 3 in total. Archeological digs have unearthed evidence of Jewish people living their thousands of year ago - and nothing from the Palestinians which didn't even exist as a people before the 20th century.
It seems like you are only using on interpretation of Palestinian rights to their homeland, which is disputed. They certainly were there longer than 3 generations. They didn’t just move there 3 generations ago. That seems outrageous. The children in Gaza now, that would be their grandparents, and their grandparents are the ones who experienced the Nakbha.
Hi Diane,
You mentioned the Nakba. I understand that refers to the Islamic position that the formation of Israel happened with the mass expulsion of Islamic and Arabic people living there.
I also understand that the Israeli position is that the Arabs and Muslims fled on orders from other Islamic countries before those countries attacked Israel.
From what I've read I believe the Israeli side has more credibility.
It is interesting to me what sides of the story people decide is the “truth.” I think it reflects their values and where they think the danger actually comes from. You seem to believe the Israel accounts and their belief in the Islamic threat and I base my opinion on stories and accounts of the people and their children who were actually impacted, in context of colonialism and what the end game is now. I don’t believe the Israeli stories. Their end game is genocide or ethnic cleansing. The end game for the Palestinians is survival and staying on their lands.
Or has Israel has made Hamas stronger?
What hamas did, killing over thousand and taking hostages is a horrific crime! Israel's answer is cruelly out of proportion. The number of deaths (62000 of which 14 000 are children) is certainly underestimated!!!
Violence cannot possibly produce peace. The total annihilation of Gaza isn't a reasonable answer neither. The clear objective of netanyahu is to steal Gaza to the Palestinians. His plan doesn't stop at Gaza! The increase in the planning of and the construction of new settlements in the West Bank have the same goal. Plainly put netanyahu wants to get rid of the Palestinians and to this end he would be ready want to "ship" them to South Sudan? Really??? You won't be surprised that he wants trumpee to get the Nobel peace price! What a sad joke!!!
Hamas bears much responsibility for their dead civilians. They are quoted as saying the civilian population is the responsibility of the UN and Israel and not theirs! The GOVERNMENT of Gaza claimed ZERO responsibility for their own citizens. And the evidence supports that.
How many years and how many billions did it take to build their network of "terror tunnels"? How many bomb shelters did they build for their people? Zero.
When the IDF carried out their operations and provided notice of where they were going, Hamas could have moved the civilians out of harms way. Or Hamas could have NOT hidden among the civilians. Or Hamas could have NOT fired rockets from hospitals and apartment buildings.
To be clear I believe the Netanyahu government is currently committing genocide against the Palestinians. But that doesn't grant Hamas a pass for their atrocities and choices.
Israel financed Hamas prior to October 7th. It is and always about GENOCIDE
Isreal isn't fighting for security. They're fighting for land. They want all of Palestine. And as much of Jordan, Syria, Lebanon etc as they can get. This is a land grab and nothing more. You'll never appease them.
Israel has no credibility whatsoever after their committing genocide and ethnic cleansing in Palestine. It’s time to return Palestine to their rightful owners of the land…the Palestinians and expel the Zionist invaders.
What do you mean by "rightful owners"? Yasser Arafat created Palestinians from whole cloth as a thorn in Israel's side.
And since you want Israel to "give back" the land they took will you be advocating for EVERY OTHER COUNTRY TO GIVE BACK THEIR STOLEN LAND?
Countries formed for many reasons and almost all of them have conquered and claimed land for themselves. Only Israel is bullied and berated to "give it back" and you know the term for an unfair expectation applied only to Jews - antisemitism.
So the Zionists who continue the occupation and genocide in Gaza are doing their god’s bidding per the Palestinians?
Some of them probably feel that way. I don't agree with that perspective.
Some of the Palestinians, certainly Hamas, feel the same way - that they are doing what their God wants. Religion foments hatred.
Why is there no outcry for Hamas, who started this war, to lay down their weapons and surrender. The long range Israeli goal is defeat Hamas both militarily and politically and end the Palestinian conflict.
Zionism is the new faism
I was just wondering if BB Son is in the 60,000 troop activation